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Frank Hu is a corporate lawyer with a bunch of certifications and responsibilities, which is surprising because through high school and college he wasn’t really focused on any particular goal, and he wasn’t interested in much besides gaming and hanging out with his friends. But at the urging of his parents, he figured out what was important to him—and found a path to prosperity for himself, and help for others as well. Plus the brothers say some stuff too.

Nesha Zackery grew up around the Army Corps of Engineers, and was eager to enter FEMA so she could help out after disasters. But her negative experiences in the wake of Hurricane Katrina set her on a different path, allowing her to make an impact in ways she never foresaw. In this episode we talk about the Toastmasters, whether anyone is paying attention to you, and what Nesha advises students to do before they enter adulthood, among many other things.

As a student, Kris Sharma officially wanted to be an international lawyer, mostly because he thought it sounded good. But a passion for writing, performing, and improv led him to take his chances in LA. Along the way, he discovered a talent for sales, got into law school but decided not to go, joined the Peace Corps… well, it’s a long story, and stories are kind of his thing, so we’ll let him tell you the rest. You’ll learn about balancing passion with practicality, and you’ll hear about a film legend who inadvertently shifted Kris’s perspective on success. Plus: crying in Boise, the brothers wax philosophical on the default human state, and the heartbreak of moving.

After college, Shirin Foroudi became disillusioned with the legal field. Through a couple of chance encounters, she was inspired to change career paths and become an English teacher in New York City. She went on to work in different capacities in several different programs, including KIPP and The New York City Teaching Fellows. Along the way, she has coached other educators, counseled hundreds of students on their next moves, and learned a lot about what makes for a good fit in a career or a school. In this interview, she explains how she finds new jobs and why not going to her top-choice school was one of the best things that ever happened to her, among lots of other things. Plus one of the poorest intros we’ve ever done for this podcast, and a polite refusal to predict the future.